[362]              home              [364]

 

Friday, January 27, 2006

 

 The BCNGroup Beadgames

 

 

Challenge Problem à

 

[145] ß [parallel discussion on generative methodology

 

Concept representations without deductive logics

 

 

 

Hi Paul (W) and list,

 

sorry for budding in, but I just wanted to follow up your lead about second order cybernetics, autopoiesis and relationism (in Judith Rosen's mail).

 

What we try to develop and implement at Pile Systems is a 'radical relationist' theory that sees pure relations as the unifying and fundamental element of any process. In a sense, this is a Heraclitean approach against the classical Parmenidian/Platonic object approach.

 

The second order cybernetics group around Heinz von Foerster, Gotthard Guenther, Humberto Maturana, Francisco Varela et al. (Stu Umpleby was a student of von Foerster at the Biological Computer Lab BCL) did some very important groundwork in this area, I believe, with Maturana describing thinking as next order processing of pure relations ('pure' meaning here that interpretations are strictly outside of the processing system) and Guenther trying to crack the riddle of a proemial logic operator that would interweave all those relations in a self-organizing polycontextural structure. (His former student Rudolph Kaehr is still working in Scotland on this approach).

 

I agree with Robert Rosen that the relational approach (we call it relationist to distinguish it from relational databases etc.) is the key to mapping and modelling biological and other complex systems, because it allows you not only to see a system purely from its relational patterns, but also to apply these patterns in other contexts (interpretations).

 

The radical relationist approach is as intuitive as it is strange for traditional science and IT, where hierarchical structures and data still reign supreme. To break this paradigm of dividing the IT world in 'bits that do something and bits that mean something' (G. Dyson) is tough (as we all experience), but once you achieve it through an applicable technology, everybody soon will wonder why we ever thought differently...

 

And there is another important link here: once we can map complex systems in a way that only reduces complexity instead of removing it altogether (as is done today) we can also gain a new understanding (including more modesty and less hybris) about our universe.

 

Peter Krieg

 

Pile Systems Inc

www.pilesys.com